It was really interesting to get an inside look at the numbers behind making a podcast, and I appreciate the sincerity and transparency. You might want to edit the end of the post to include an explicit link to become a premium subscriber to Hyperfixed, because I almost just upgraded to a paid Cool Dude Zone subscription instead, thinking it was for the podcast. Admittedly, I am very sleep deprived at the moment, so I’m not sure how many other people would make that mistake, but just FYI!
Sponsored episodes sounds like a potentially fun move to bring in money. As long as the brands want the Hyperfixed voice, can find ways to be vulnerable like someone with a question, and the stories are still interesting, I don’t see a downside. If anyone wants to stand on artistic integrity against this, I hope they’re willing to share their trust fund with you.
I was crying listening to the live episode while walking around Montmartre in Paris - became a really special memory. That’s worth paying for even without all the other awesome stuff :-)
Alex, I know how hard this is to share but it's really appreciated. As a person who makes podcasts, too, I think it's really important to be transparent about how much all this costs to make.... even if it also makes you want to vomit. :)
Get your stuff on YouTube. It's used as a podcast platform now because of discoverability. Reading the numbers its primarily a cost per listener thing. Costs are fixed, revenue scales with listener. That means you have to get infront of a new audience. Strongly suggest YouTube.
Potentially a dumb question, but something I – and maybe others – don't know.
Is your ad revenue dependent on how much of each ad is listened to, or do you get the full amount regardless of whether someone listens to the first 5 seconds of the ad, or the whole thing?
I appreciate that it's a small drop in the ocean, but by not skipping ads, do our favourite podcasts get more income?
Not dumb! And the answer is “it depends.” Certain platforms (and I’ll be honest, I’m not sure which) can track listener behavior as they listen to an episode, vs most platforms that just track downloads. Im pretty sure Apple and Spotify have more granular access to your listening behavior but I can’t be sure. Regardless, most of the time just listening is fine. I do try to make the ads at least somewhat worth listening to.
Some additional context. In another post I mentioned being a business consultant, but I am also a full-stack developer (I've lived a lot of careers).
When you are "listening" to a podcast, technically speaking, you have already downloaded the whole file. This is how it works on most podcast players. So it is literally impossible to know how much of a show you have listened to because that information is not saved or sent by your device. There is additionally no real audio "pixel" that can follow you around like a website cookie. So, getting listener data is very hard due to the de-centralized nature of podcasts (they are kinda open-source).
However, platforms like Spotify are actually streaming it to you and tracking your behavior because they built their player that way for them. BUT! They don't share this information with other providers, so it becomes a walled garden of data for just Spotify. Contrary to my last paragraph, other platforms may also stream data like this, but it is rare for podcast players. With this in mind though, these platforms are still keeping the data to themselves, generally not even sharing it with the Podcasters.
This is part of the reason why Advertising in podcasts has fallen off. The targeting is awful, the metrics are non-existent, and the impact is hard to measure for them.
It's something i've given lots of thought. We've been trying to build a solution for host-read ads for 4 years and just can't crack it, having to have pivoted to more of a contact / research platform for Podcasts.
Anyways, hope that was kinda interesting for a reader as I assume Alex knows more than me here!
I appreciate transparency and need for diversified revenue streams and survival, but I cringed when reading about potential fully-sponsored content/story-driven episodes. Even if the content is (I apologise for the pun) ‘on brand’ for Hyperfixed, it opens a window for potential bias, perceived bias or bias, which will erode the journalistic integrity and trust you have built up over the decades. I don’t want to doubt your journalistic integrity. I would hate that. But with 100% sponsored content it is very difficult (possibly impossible) to claim that the transaction had no effect on one’s journalism. I won’t listen to it, personally. I indirectly know a journalist who won’t even accept a glass of water from anyone she is interacting with for a story because the small bias or perceived bias it could create. On the excessive side? Perhaps, but I will don’t doubt her impartiality and journalistic integrity and that to me is worth a great, great deal. I say all of this with the caveat of thankfully having a stable income and being able to live comfortably enough. Love the show and so glad you’re back!
Thanks for the note Philip, and I totally get it. Im honestly as squeamish as you are about it. If I ever do sponsored episodes, I do plan on prefacing them by saying that it sponsored, that I’m being paid for it, that there are certain things that I will not be discussing about a company because they are paying for it. But I also wouldn’t take one from a company that I thought sucked. And ideally there would come a time when we wouldn’t need to do that anymore. But right now cash flow is an existential problem. So we’re doing our best!
I very much disagree. Why is it cringe to make a sponsored episode if it maintains the same journalistic quality, but maybe mentions "HP" and features interviews with people who work there? At the end of the day companies have stories and mysteries to tell too! Hyperfixed, to me, is less investigative journalism to expose something and more investigative to solve problems. I think it's actually it's an interesting experiment and would love to hear how Alex and the team present it. Then if you don't like the idea of it... you can just skip the episode! No hurt to you, but the potential for Alex to sustain the show, cool! Could be a quarterly thing or something. Totally reasonable.
Honestly as a listener I would be cool if you did the branded episodes. If it’s mentioned in the title of the episode then I know beforehand and can choose whether or not to invest my listenership. I appreciate how candid you are!
As an employee of a new bakery that’s trying to be profitable and treat staff equitably, I feel that we are going through a lot of the same struggles as you.
Incredible report. As someone working in the podcast space, more on the ads / marketing / PR side, but personally caring more about the creative side, this sort of insight is rare and hard fought to hear.
Hopefully the situation around the market can improve and exchanges like PodRoll can help, even if it can be "annoying".
One thing I actually don't understand is the fact that listeners and commenters here can get "upset" or "complain" about the free and incredible narrative content that is lovingly produced... but has some other podcasts advertising themselves? Honestly... not a big ask to listen to it for 30 seconds or just skip by it. It's such a minor inconvenience that empowers Alex, and other creators to keep bringing us joy after hours and hours of work. I just don't see any world where Alex or the team should have to feel "cringe" about this decision or any other to make the show work financially. I don't really like the capitalist world we have created either, but it is the one we need to live in. Perhaps in the future once the show stabilises it is removed, but patience people! Success is not overnight, not matter what the story tells you!
Long way of saying, Alex, As a business consultant, from a business perspective, you are doing absolutely wonderful! Keep bringing us incredible stories and I am 10,000% happy to hear your voice again after listening all the way from TLDR days!!! ;p
thank you alex, this was super insightful. I have been a huge fan of yours for a long time and If anything this post reminds me of the very early days of the startup podcast when blumberg would go in to the financial details. I will say if you had a donation link, I'd happily give more than 40$ a week.
Yes, I also wondered about something like those "Buy me a cup of coffee" links. I subscribe already, but I'd definitely kick in $5 on top of that from time to time, especially if the link was right in front of me as a reminder. And keep up the great work, Alex and team! I appreciate the candor here and the general humanity and curiosity that infuses all of your work.
It was really interesting to get an inside look at the numbers behind making a podcast, and I appreciate the sincerity and transparency. You might want to edit the end of the post to include an explicit link to become a premium subscriber to Hyperfixed, because I almost just upgraded to a paid Cool Dude Zone subscription instead, thinking it was for the podcast. Admittedly, I am very sleep deprived at the moment, so I’m not sure how many other people would make that mistake, but just FYI!
Yo! send me an email @ m.alex.goldman@gmail.com and I'll transfer your account from the substack to hyperfixed
Thanks for responding, but I caught my mistake in time, so I’m all good with the correct subscription!
Alex, I’m a long time listener and big fan of your work. Thanks for putting this out there - it was the push I needed to become a paid subscriber.
Sponsored episodes sounds like a potentially fun move to bring in money. As long as the brands want the Hyperfixed voice, can find ways to be vulnerable like someone with a question, and the stories are still interesting, I don’t see a downside. If anyone wants to stand on artistic integrity against this, I hope they’re willing to share their trust fund with you.
Subscribed.
I was crying listening to the live episode while walking around Montmartre in Paris - became a really special memory. That’s worth paying for even without all the other awesome stuff :-)
Thanks so much, Liz!
Alex, I know how hard this is to share but it's really appreciated. As a person who makes podcasts, too, I think it's really important to be transparent about how much all this costs to make.... even if it also makes you want to vomit. :)
Thanks, Erika!
Get your stuff on YouTube. It's used as a podcast platform now because of discoverability. Reading the numbers its primarily a cost per listener thing. Costs are fixed, revenue scales with listener. That means you have to get infront of a new audience. Strongly suggest YouTube.
Potentially a dumb question, but something I – and maybe others – don't know.
Is your ad revenue dependent on how much of each ad is listened to, or do you get the full amount regardless of whether someone listens to the first 5 seconds of the ad, or the whole thing?
I appreciate that it's a small drop in the ocean, but by not skipping ads, do our favourite podcasts get more income?
Not dumb! And the answer is “it depends.” Certain platforms (and I’ll be honest, I’m not sure which) can track listener behavior as they listen to an episode, vs most platforms that just track downloads. Im pretty sure Apple and Spotify have more granular access to your listening behavior but I can’t be sure. Regardless, most of the time just listening is fine. I do try to make the ads at least somewhat worth listening to.
Some additional context. In another post I mentioned being a business consultant, but I am also a full-stack developer (I've lived a lot of careers).
When you are "listening" to a podcast, technically speaking, you have already downloaded the whole file. This is how it works on most podcast players. So it is literally impossible to know how much of a show you have listened to because that information is not saved or sent by your device. There is additionally no real audio "pixel" that can follow you around like a website cookie. So, getting listener data is very hard due to the de-centralized nature of podcasts (they are kinda open-source).
However, platforms like Spotify are actually streaming it to you and tracking your behavior because they built their player that way for them. BUT! They don't share this information with other providers, so it becomes a walled garden of data for just Spotify. Contrary to my last paragraph, other platforms may also stream data like this, but it is rare for podcast players. With this in mind though, these platforms are still keeping the data to themselves, generally not even sharing it with the Podcasters.
This is part of the reason why Advertising in podcasts has fallen off. The targeting is awful, the metrics are non-existent, and the impact is hard to measure for them.
It's something i've given lots of thought. We've been trying to build a solution for host-read ads for 4 years and just can't crack it, having to have pivoted to more of a contact / research platform for Podcasts.
Anyways, hope that was kinda interesting for a reader as I assume Alex knows more than me here!
I appreciate transparency and need for diversified revenue streams and survival, but I cringed when reading about potential fully-sponsored content/story-driven episodes. Even if the content is (I apologise for the pun) ‘on brand’ for Hyperfixed, it opens a window for potential bias, perceived bias or bias, which will erode the journalistic integrity and trust you have built up over the decades. I don’t want to doubt your journalistic integrity. I would hate that. But with 100% sponsored content it is very difficult (possibly impossible) to claim that the transaction had no effect on one’s journalism. I won’t listen to it, personally. I indirectly know a journalist who won’t even accept a glass of water from anyone she is interacting with for a story because the small bias or perceived bias it could create. On the excessive side? Perhaps, but I will don’t doubt her impartiality and journalistic integrity and that to me is worth a great, great deal. I say all of this with the caveat of thankfully having a stable income and being able to live comfortably enough. Love the show and so glad you’re back!
Thanks for the note Philip, and I totally get it. Im honestly as squeamish as you are about it. If I ever do sponsored episodes, I do plan on prefacing them by saying that it sponsored, that I’m being paid for it, that there are certain things that I will not be discussing about a company because they are paying for it. But I also wouldn’t take one from a company that I thought sucked. And ideally there would come a time when we wouldn’t need to do that anymore. But right now cash flow is an existential problem. So we’re doing our best!
I very much disagree. Why is it cringe to make a sponsored episode if it maintains the same journalistic quality, but maybe mentions "HP" and features interviews with people who work there? At the end of the day companies have stories and mysteries to tell too! Hyperfixed, to me, is less investigative journalism to expose something and more investigative to solve problems. I think it's actually it's an interesting experiment and would love to hear how Alex and the team present it. Then if you don't like the idea of it... you can just skip the episode! No hurt to you, but the potential for Alex to sustain the show, cool! Could be a quarterly thing or something. Totally reasonable.
Really appreciate the transparency, just subbed for a year. How do I get a subscriber podcast link?
You can become a subscriber at: https://hyperfixedpod.com/join. Thanks so much, Ed!
Honestly as a listener I would be cool if you did the branded episodes. If it’s mentioned in the title of the episode then I know beforehand and can choose whether or not to invest my listenership. I appreciate how candid you are!
As an employee of a new bakery that’s trying to be profitable and treat staff equitably, I feel that we are going through a lot of the same struggles as you.
Incredible report. As someone working in the podcast space, more on the ads / marketing / PR side, but personally caring more about the creative side, this sort of insight is rare and hard fought to hear.
Hopefully the situation around the market can improve and exchanges like PodRoll can help, even if it can be "annoying".
One thing I actually don't understand is the fact that listeners and commenters here can get "upset" or "complain" about the free and incredible narrative content that is lovingly produced... but has some other podcasts advertising themselves? Honestly... not a big ask to listen to it for 30 seconds or just skip by it. It's such a minor inconvenience that empowers Alex, and other creators to keep bringing us joy after hours and hours of work. I just don't see any world where Alex or the team should have to feel "cringe" about this decision or any other to make the show work financially. I don't really like the capitalist world we have created either, but it is the one we need to live in. Perhaps in the future once the show stabilises it is removed, but patience people! Success is not overnight, not matter what the story tells you!
Long way of saying, Alex, As a business consultant, from a business perspective, you are doing absolutely wonderful! Keep bringing us incredible stories and I am 10,000% happy to hear your voice again after listening all the way from TLDR days!!! ;p
thank you alex, this was super insightful. I have been a huge fan of yours for a long time and If anything this post reminds me of the very early days of the startup podcast when blumberg would go in to the financial details. I will say if you had a donation link, I'd happily give more than 40$ a week.
Yes, I also wondered about something like those "Buy me a cup of coffee" links. I subscribe already, but I'd definitely kick in $5 on top of that from time to time, especially if the link was right in front of me as a reminder. And keep up the great work, Alex and team! I appreciate the candor here and the general humanity and curiosity that infuses all of your work.
This is an interesting idea! I'll talk to Supporting Cast and see if there's a way to do it. Thanks for the suggestions, Tyler and Daphna
It’s so helpful to share your honest thoughts. Both for people who work in audio and people who love it. Thank you!!
Rooting for you!!
Appreciate the transparency. I trust you would make sponsored episodes worth listening to.